Play Date with Teresa Thomas: Fun is Fuel 

EPISODE LINKS:

Teresa's website

50 Fun Things website

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Annmarie: [00:00:00] Hey, welcome back to I Used to be Fun. My guest today is someone I actually know, I was gonna say from a past life, but that sounds a little mystical. So from a previous business iteration maybe is a better way of saying it. We crossed paths years ago now, through one of her many endeavors, a resource called Women in Networking, or WIN, great acronym, but that's not why [00:01:00] she's here today.

She's here because as she turned 50, she had what she calls a midlife awareness, and I love that she didn't call it a crisis. Instead, she described it as a sudden clarity that time is precious and someday isn't guaranteed. And then that midlife awareness spurred her to make a list, 50 fun things she wanted to experience before she turned 50.

And then, because she is who she is, she turned that list into a practice, then that practice into retreats and a business, and somewhere along the way she got nicknamed The Joy Concierge, which, having interacted with her, totally fits. She is one of those people whose smile is truly infectious. And as someone called The Joy Concierge, I really wanna dig into her belief that joy isn't frivolous, but rather that it might be one of the most useful tools we have. Because spoiler alert, I believe the same thing, and I bet like a [00:02:00] lot of us, I sometimes struggle accessing that joy. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. And welcome to I Used to be Fun, Theresa Thomas.

I'm so excited you're here.

Teresa: Yay. when I saw your email, I was like, "Yay, I haven't seen you forever." And I'm just so glad to be talking with you

Annmarie: Yeah, I tried to do the math of how long it's been, and I wanna say it's been over a decade. And my goodness, the older I get, the faster time goes. My mom used to always say that to me, you know, "It goes faster when you get older." I'm like, "No." Truly does.

Teresa: It does.

Annmarie: But I digress. And since it has been a while since we've interacted, I'd love to hear the short version of how you got from who I knew as the networking expert, I know you still are, but to this joy concierge.

What happened in between networking expert and joy concierge?

Teresa: It's interesting, Annmarie, because when you met me, Previous to that, I had a business that my tagline was, "Create the life you want with the [00:03:00] resources you have." And so I'm kind of coming full circle, and the networking piece part of having that life you want, right? It's meeting the types of people that you want to interact with, that you can move each other forward on your goals. And so the networking was something that I was asked to take on because of what's joyful for me is meaningful connection, meaningful conversations, I know how to, you know, just shoot the breeze, but I prefer to have real conversations. And so I brought that to the table with networking and it seemed to really fit for what a lot of especially women were looking for in their networking, was something that was more about a relationship and caring and helping each other out.

And so entering Joy Concierge was, me, feels like coming full circle [00:04:00] because that's what I was doing then, was putting on experiences where people would reconnect with why they chose their profession, why they're doing what they're doing, and reigniting that, playful sense of wonder and connection.

And so it feels good to be, back full circle.

Annmarie: Love that. so I do remember the beginning of WIN, when you first took over, and that you were coming from this. And I also really love, and maybe this is the reason I was attracted to that organization in the first place, is I also don't like small talk, and I also find networking a little bit intimidating.

And so for, to hear you describe it as joyful and full of wonder and play, well, that's certainly gonna give me a different way to look at it, and a new way to, maybe enter the situation and make it far less intimidating for myself. And also, I think it's a [00:05:00] really great way to think about most things we do.

And if I'm not making too much of a non-sequitur here, I think that brings us back to the 50 fun things list that I mentioned. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about both the initial exercise and then what it turned into. So where did it start, and then when did you realize it was more than a 50th birthday exercise?

Teresa: Well, yeah, the way it, it started was I was frustrated with myself because I wasn't showing up in the ways that I wanted to. And I had told myself that, you know, "By the time I'm 50, I'm gonna be so confident. I'm gonna be speaking my voice. I'm going to stop being a people pleaser." I, I had all these ideas of what that would be like, and I, as I was approaching 50, like, oh, wow, I so not there. so I, I was frustrated then I thought, "Okay, well, what can I do for [00:06:00] myself, something that I really would enjoy?" And I thought, "Well- I wanna have a party 'cause, you know, being 50 is a big deal. But I'm gonna do it how I want to, and if, uh, the way I want to have a party is weird, so be it.

Annmarie: Love it.

Teresa: so I had worksheets one of the worksheets was like a mad lib where people would fill in, to see how well they knew me. You know, like what my favorite clothes are to wear, you know, musician, all that. And so that was really fun. And then I put together a chart 50 things that I wanted to experience in the coming year.

And back then, 50 was like, "Oh, can I possibly experience fun things in a year?" Like, that seems silly to me. I, I'm like, "Wow, I experience f- fun things all the time." But back then, it's like, "Well, yeah, I suppose I could, experience fun thing a week." I'm like, "Okay." So that's how that, the 50 came together.

[00:07:00] And, the first thing that was on the chart was the party. It's like, yep, this is my first thing. And then I put down all kinds of things like, know, little things to bigger things Um, the big things were like, you know, traveling, with friends. And some of the little things were, just ordering a latte 'cause I'm so practical.

I'd always just order a regular old cup of coffee. And like, you know, just get a latte, see what it's like, what... You know, everybody else is into these things. and those little things ended up making such a difference, and they even affected my connections with not only friends, like, you know, finding out that my friends had similar interests that I didn't know they had or that they'd want to travel with me was really great and, and deepened our friendships. And then the little things helped me connect with just people out in the world, strangers, and feeling more connected. So, like, when I ordered that latte, I was so appreciative of it. It was [00:08:00] beautiful. the barista just really feeling the love for the coffee and, know, or the, the latte.

And I was like, okay, those little things, they make such a difference. so I just started noticing how these things would show up and, and these things that I, I even thought were kind of far-fetched, like, yeah, well, put it on there 'cause I wanna experience, but I, I don't know that it'll happen. They did.

So the day before my following birthday after putting together the 50 fun things chart- I was at the Renaissance Festival and the person I was with said, "So did you get to experience everything on your chart?" I said, "Oh, everything except one. I haven't, experienced a drum jam." Well, did you know that's how they close the Renaissance Festival

Annmarie: My goodness

Teresa: And it's not like it was magic, but it was... It felt like it. But what it really is telling me is, like, your intention, right? So I said that I wanted that, I voiced it, [00:09:00] and then when I found out it was happening, well, I'm staying till the end because I said I wanted it, and here's an opportunity. I think a lot of times in life we're like, "Oh, that's cool. I said I wanted it. Here's an opportunity, but I don't know. wanna get home." And something has really shifted in, in me and in other people who have done 50 Fun Things is that, that sense of intention. Like, okay, you put it out there. You asked for this.

Here's your opportunity. not that you have to say yes to it, but it just makes you so much more aware of how you're interacting with life.

Annmarie: I pulled two things from that that I wrote down on the piece of paper. The first one is, you know, I'm not a big fan of the idea of manifesting from your couch. I've tried it, didn't work. But that being open to something That's where the intention setting comes to me. It's like you're almost bringing it forward in a way that now you're looking for it, you're open to [00:10:00] it, and when you share it with other people, to your point, I've had more people tell me, I don't know, in the last six months, a very similar story And it can be small things like the drum jam, right? Like, you bring it up, and somebody goes, "Oh, well, that's happening down the block," or, "Oh, I have a set of golf clubs that I'd sell you for $25," or whatever it may be. It's just amazing to hear those stories, and I really do think it's about setting the intention and then having your eyes open and being open to it.

But I also think the other thing I heard in there, which is something that I talk about a lot, is giving ourselves permission, and as women, we don't do that very well. So we'll buy our children whatever they need, but we're not gonna buy ourselves the latte. So that permission inside of these 50 fun things like, yeah, I can travel, or yeah, you know, maybe $8 on a cup of [00:11:00] coffee isn't practical, but boy, it made my day better, or think about who I ran into, or the fun I gave that barista that day.

Like, there's so many benefits if we just open up and give ourselves that permission. Do you feel the same way?

Teresa: I'm so glad that you said that because you're right. a lot of people, I think especially women, I know for myself used to be like, "Oh, I don't wanna bother anyone. Oh, I don't wanna say what I want." what I've learned is that when we express what we want, not harming anyone. fact, people want to show up and be there for each other and, and it's fun to help someone to be able to do or, or experience something that they wanted. And so I learned that stating I'm interested in, what I want I'm not demanding it, I'm just putting it out there. and then the circumstances can show up [00:12:00] because I've said it. Nobody's going to tell me that, you know, there's a drum jam happening just out of the blue, right? I mean, well, maybe they would, but it's unlikely

Annmarie: Yep

Teresa: I voice it

Annmarie: And that's what we need to do is when people talk about putting things out into the world in a woo way or in a non-woo way, but I think this is what it means is nobody knows how to help you unless you tell them. And also, there is nothing greater in this world than helping people do something they really want.

Like, there is no harm in the positive feedback you get from, you know, doing charitable work or helping a friend move or whatever it may be. Like, you can feel good about that. It doesn't have to be just about the output of the give, if that makes sense.

Teresa: It does. And, in a way I see it in a similar way as that popular Marianne Williamson quote, "Who am I to shine my light? And who are you not to? Because by shining your light, you [00:13:00] allow others to shine." really similar because whether we know it or not, we are role modeling for everybody around us all the time, and they're role modeling for us. And we wouldn't want the people that we care about to hold back on having the lives they want. when we express what we want, it, gives them that permission, it... or that environment where they can express what they want. And truly, when we do that, that is real connection, when we talk about what matters to us, that's where real connection happens. and that's what I find really beautiful about it, is not even just connecting with each other in a deeper way, but to ourselves because so many of us forget who we are. And, When we notice what lights us up, what brings us joy, those are huge, huge clues to who we are. But if we're constantly putting other [00:14:00] people's joys ahead of our own, we forget what our own are.

Annmarie: I agree, and I think that's what happens, and I mean, the joke of this podcast is I literally texted to a friend, "You know what? I used to be fun." And whether that was true or not, who knows, but it is that, like, burying slowly of yourself under other people's needs, other people's joys, denying what you want, to the point where you do lose track of it.

I've had conversations now with people on this podcast, and I say, "What do you consider fun? What do you consider play?" And sometimes the answer doesn't come, and it's because we have pushed that aside for so long that we have truly forgotten. So we've stopped, we've stopped owning it. We've stopped giving ourself permission.

We've, put other people's needs first, and if we can do one thing here today, I think that's it, is to, like, start to think about what is [00:15:00] it that does light you up? And when you're making your 50 fun things list or chart, do you have a, breakdown of like, here's the big things, here's the little things, here's the way I stay in gratitude?

Tell me a little bit about constructing the list, 'cause I know you run courses on doing this, correct?

Teresa: I do, and there is a process, the workshop I also say rules are meant to be broken. So the process walks people through different ways of looking at joy in their life. past joys that maybe they wish to, to bring back or to prioritize or to try again. the things like you said, that just light them up, That's the thing, like I think we get caught up that joy and play have to be these crazy, wild, you know, super interesting things. But joy to me is sitting on my balcony having breakfast outside and watching the birds come to the feeder. Like [00:16:00] that's not crazy and wild. That, but it brings me joy, and that's what matters. And, By looking at from so many different lenses, it gets us to uncover what it really is for ourselves. Because in the beginning, we kind of go to the standard, " what do other people think is joy?" Like, no, no, you don't have to do that. And it's a really, really beautiful thing to see when people are uncovering what brings them joy and stating it and claiming it. sometimes I feel like people have been holding some of these things in because they feel like, well, that shouldn't be fun. Like, well, it doesn't matter what oth- other people think.

If to you reading a book on a rainy day is fun or feels joyful, that's yours. That's wonderful. that's what I love is that for people really tap in to those, small moments, not waiting for the big [00:17:00] thing, but to be able to find joy in any moment, is a really powerful thing

Annmarie: I'm sitting here thinking about it's really easy for me to come up with aspirational things. I wanna go to Santorini, Greece. You know, those types of things. And, you know, we travel a lot. That's not out of realm of possibility for me. But the things that I think that I don't own or allow myself to really revel in are the small things you're talking about.

Like, I have a pretty good gratitude practice What I always think, I'm definitely a person who goes to the big stuff first, I guess, is what I'm saying. And to sit and think about, yeah, you know what? I really do love to sit on my patio with my husband having a coffee on a Saturday morning when we don't have to be anywhere.

Like, that feels really good. Or, owning what it is that lights me personally up, like, there's some weird stuff, and I think it took me until I was in my [00:18:00] 50s to really own some of those things. Like, I've talked about it a million times. People who listen regularly are gonna be like, "All right, shut up about this."

But I never played with Lego as a kid. I love it now. Or, you know, there's a lot of things that maybe meant for children that I enjoy, and to be able to just kind of explore that and sit with it and really play without any of, like, this is wasting your time, or this isn't for you, or shouldn't you have outgrown this?

You know, those types of things are so cool, and a lot of those things are the small things that if you're not paying attention, they just pass by in the day. So having a list of something, a chart of something to go, "Oh yeah, that is the thing." Like, when is the last time we actually sat out on the patio and didn't rush off to Costco on a Saturday morning, which is not joyful.

I saw your eyes get big. Costco on Saturday. Are you crazy? [00:19:00] Yeah, right. But I do also love the piece where you're talking about the discovery process, which is kind of woven through what we've talked about already, is allowing yourself that quiet time, whether it's in a more structured environment like you're talking about, or even just sitting down with a journal and getting quiet and really starting to write down what it is that you think brings you joy.

And then maybe going through the filter of is this really for me, or is this what culture says joy should be, right? So I think that's important,

Teresa: Is that all right if I circle back to something that you said

Annmarie: Absolutely. Please

Teresa: you were talking about how much you enjoy sitting on your patio with your husband and having that slow morning, what I think we miss so much, is being present in the moment. And, you know, before our podcast we were talking about how fast time goes by, it's the memories we [00:20:00] create, the meaningful connections that we really s- notice and spend time with or listen, those are what matter. we've been accultured to think, "Well, we gotta get things done, we gotta get things done." Like, yes, we do. We do need to get things done, not at the expense of being present to the moment and the recognition of, "Oh, this feels good. This, is what I love." I don't have w- you know, anything huge to say other than it's just a really beautiful thing when you can be present to each other, be present to yourself, be present to nature, be present to life. And so what seems like a small thing, sitting on the patio with your husband, is actually a really big thing

Annmarie: Agree. it's almost countercultural to take that time, and so you are pushing up against things where people are like, "No, you need to be busy. You need to be moving. You need to do that." And, and [00:21:00] I don't know if this is specific to the United States, it kind of feels like it is as much as I've traveled, but that hustle culture is just exhausting.

And then you have people like me, who if you wanna know why I act the way I did because of what happened when I was seven years old, I can tell you. I can live in the past, and if you want a three, five, or 10-year plan, you better believe I'll deliver it with color-coded Excel spreadsheets. But living in the moment is really hard for me, and it's a really big thing that I've been trying to focus on this year.

It's where this podcast comes from. It's where these conversations come from, to really stop and go, "Okay, what's really good right now?" Like I'm thinking about how I'm enjoying this conversation and without this podcast, I don't know that I would've reached out. And then you think, "Why?" Like, why are you not reaching out to the people that would be fun to talk to and do that type of thing?

So that would definitely be something on my 50 fun things list, [00:22:00] is I'm not a big crowds person, but boy, I love a really good one-on-one conversation with somebody. And so, hey, that'll go on my list. and as we're talking about this, I'd like to know if you have things on your list or joys in your life that are repeatable, on-purpose joys versus the things that just kind of show up

Teresa: I do. I, one of the things that I have on almost every one of my charts, I use the chart for so many different things. Like, sometimes I'll say, "Oh, I have a new service coming out. What are 50 fun things about this service?"

Annmarie: Oh, great

Teresa: so these things that are repeatable, I don't necessarily put on there.

But the thing that's always on my personal chart is dance.

Annmarie: Mm-hmm.

Teresa: Because for me, dance is when I feel grounded, creative, 100% myself, unfettered, just enjoying life. And so by prioritizing it and keeping it front and center, [00:23:00] it's not a, "Oh, yeah, well, if I have time, I'll dance." Like, no, really, if you dance, the rest of your life will flow much easier because you'll just feel better about life and, and feel good and grounded. the other things, that show up a lot are, you know, being present, having moments in nature outside. I love have my meals outside when the weather's conducive. and then the things that will shift are ways that we can be present. So, like, watching the stars or the sky or the clouds or, you know, something that just reminds me of my place in this universe. And,

Annmarie: I was gonna say... Oh, sorry. I was gonna say that remind you of how small we really are, and I always think that's a positive. My thing is standing next to the ocean or even Lake Superior. Like, you are a dot on this planet. That thing [00:24:00] you're obsessing about, I don't wanna say it's not important, because we all need to work through our things, but it does give you perspective, and it feels really supportive.

Like, I am just one bit of this giant thing, and I get to have a role in it, but I don't have to run the whole thing. Like, too many women are like, "Okay, I gotta run this, and then I gotta run that, and then I gotta take charge of that." Step back. Take that moment in nature for that reminder, if nothing else

Teresa: Yeah, and that's key what you said about, you know, when you see yourself as one small piece of a whole, if you get stuck on the small piece, then it can feel disheartening. But if you realize like of a whole, that everything's connected, that you're part of that connection, that that's a really powerful thing. Like being by the ocean and realizing that your tears and the ocean water are so similar, and that there's so much wonder and curiosity that [00:25:00] we'll never be able to comprehend how amazing life is. but we may as well enjoy the amazingness that we can see and that we can experience

Annmarie: I want to circle back to one thing. You were talking about always prioritizing dance curious, do you need to remind yourself to do something that you love that much? Like, is it really important for you to get that on every list even if you know after all these years, I kinda remember when you started to add dance to your life, and like I said, I think that's been long over a decade.

But tell me, do you need the reminder?

Teresa: I did need the reminder in the beginning, I, have it on my chart. I'd anything that was dance related that, you know, I'd put it on my calendar if it was something that interested me. there's a dance practice I do called Nia, and a friend of mine teaches a class, so I, sign up for her [00:26:00] classes. but now I've gotten to a point where I don't have to physically write it down because I'm doing it. but I'm also s- now surrounded by more people dance. Like I set the intention, and then I had to be real deliberate, like, "Okay, let's put it on a calendar. Let's sign up for things.

Let's be aware of opportunities to, oh, now I have more people in my life that this is a value for." And it just starts becoming a way of life, a part of life

Annmarie: I love that because it does show us that we can make joy habits or habits out of joy, and that, that frees up then space to think about other things you may want to do or add, or things you're grateful for, and so forth. I'd love to know what you feel like has changed in you as a person since you started this practice

Teresa: Oh, so much has changed. I will say that probably the most obvious change is that when I started with my very first 50 Fun [00:27:00] Things chart, it was looking for joy outside of myself, if that makes sense. Like, oh, I need to do this experience. I have to go to this place. I have to learn this thing. I have to try this thing, which I love.

I love trying new things. There's nothing wrong with that. But now more like mindset and attitude and perspective and nuances that are part of those things for example, if- if something is annoying me, I've learned to step back and like get curious about it. Instead of getting defensive or frustrated, yeah, I can get a little frustrated, but to step back and get curious like, "Oh, is there another way of looking at this?" an example I'll share that I think is- is really cool is couple years ago we had a 50 Fun Things workshop, and I was doing a visualization for part of it and having them notice their [00:28:00] environment. And then I could sense that w- one woman was really irritated that- uh, some people outside were being really loud. And so I- I tried it. I just said, "And if there's something that's frustrating you, just get curious and notice and see if there's a different way of looking at it." and when we came back and debriefed about that, she said, "Wow, I was so hung up on what exactly are those people talking about that they have to be so loud, and why can't they just go, you know, somewhere f- farther away?" then she shifted into, "Oh, wow, they are really excited to see each other." and then she saw the beauty in it, and after the workshop, she actually went outside and introduced herself

Annmarie: goodness

Teresa: their dog. And it's like, oh my God, like it's just such a simple example, but to me, that just seems profound.

Like how many times in life are we just like, "Oh, that bugs me. Na, na, na, na, na" and then if we just shift it for a moment and get curious, [00:29:00] you know what? it's not so bad.

Annmarie: I love that, and I actually don't... I mean, you called it simple and profound, and I do think it's profound because it is that, can I stop and look at this in a different way? And she found joy in what they were doing. So not only did her irritation stop, which gets you kind of to stasis, but then it's like, oh my goodness, those people are having the best time.

And then she introduced herself to those people and, you know, the best thing in life is petting a dog. So

Teresa: Yeah

Annmarie: I love that. I love that ability to shift in the moment, and curiosity is a big part of it. I mean,

Well

maybe it's the center part of it

Teresa: Well The other thing about that too is when she was stuck in the frustration, it wasn't helping her.

Annmarie: No

Teresa: She wasn't able to absorb everything else until she moved through that, and then she was able to be fully present again and, be there for why she wanted [00:30:00] to be there. And so for me, that was a, a great lesson as well, is just, okay, where am I holding myself back from joy in ways that I really don't need to?

And it's not serving anyone

Annmarie: Sometimes I think about, I think it's Brene Brown that talks about foreboding joy,

So foreboding joy, is that feeling you get ... She describes it as she's tucked her little kids into bed, and she has so much joy how peaceful they are, and then all of a sudden she fears all the things that could go wrong. So it's you step into that positive emotion, and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Wait a minute. If I feel all that positive emotion, it could be taken away." And so sometimes I think that's what stops us from fun, play, joy, wonder, because it does take a certain level of vulnerability, in my opinion and maybe Brene's opinion, to walk into that

Teresa: it does and [00:31:00] a bigger of that is, when fear holds us back from living our lives, that's where it gets troublesome. And it is a really, a natural thing to do, but the reality of life is that changes. Hard things happen. There are moments where we don't think we're going to get through. So I'm, I'm not about the toxic joy, like, "Hey, just pretend every- like, only look for the good things." It's not about that. It's that there can be grief and joy, that they can be there together, and that our emotions shift, life shifts. and by really feeling that joy, so like with Brene tucking in her children and feeling so joyful about the fact that she's their mom and what that feels like- That's the choice that I would make because the fear doesn't change anything other than guarding your [00:32:00] feelings, not feeling the good things. it's feeling the good things that even allows her kids to feel her love.

Annmarie: Right. You're blocking that positive emotion from other people as well

Teresa: yeah. Yeah. So I get it. I'm a worrywart. When I was a kid, I was always worried about the worst possible scenarios. I'd go to the library and I'd watch this series called Better Safe Than Sorry, and I learned all the ways to get beheaded. it's like, "Don't put your head out the bus

Annmarie: Oh, like real ways to get beheaded, not

like

Teresa: it was like, it was

Annmarie: Game of Thrones

Teresa: a series to teach kids how to be careful, and I just, I was so worried about every scenario. But it was limiting because was so afraid. Like, "Oh, I can't, I can't look out the window at this thing because something horrible will happen."

Like, well, you know what? Something horrible could happen no matter what. And yeah, be careful, but not to the extreme of that you're preventing yourself from experiencing life because something could happen. [00:33:00] Honestly, when you think about all the crazy things that happen in life, most of them are ones that we never would have expected.

So it's smart thoughtful about the situations we get ourselves in, but also smart to, obsess and, and to really live into that, feeling of wonder and joy and not hold ourselves back from it because of fear of it going away.

Annmarie: this kind of takes...

Teresa: heavy question.

Yeah,

Annmarie: This is what I mean about an in-depth one-on-one conversation. That's why people are like, "I don't wanna have coffee with you, Annmarie, because I don't need therapy today." I'm like, "Oh, come on. Come on." So I think this notion of joy and grief living together, one would say you can't really feel grief if you haven't had joy, you know, that you don't miss something that didn't bring you happiness.

and also the idea of letting fear take over. Before we clicked record today, we were [00:34:00] talking about the, kind of the state of the f- the country right now and how our personal lives are pretty good. And then you look outside of that, and it's not as good. is there a way that going through a practice like 50 Fun Things that could help you kinda live in that dichotomy?

Teresa: Yeah. Well, it certainly helps me, and the way that it helps me specifically with what, we're talking about right now is I, I talked earlier about how joy is a clue, and joy is a clue also about what I'm good at. And I'm good at being a connector. I'm good at being a nurturer. good at being a listener, and I'm good at ideas, art, creativity. And so for me, that's how I best show up. When I try to show [00:35:00] up in ways that don't feel like me That's where I can get really down on myself and frustrated. It's like, okay, so, you know, maybe, giving out, and, and hot packs and waters, maybe that's not changing the world, it's what I can do. It fits, for me. And, and so what it boils down to is Other people are showing up in the ways work for them and that they're, they're really good at. And, that's the other thing that I have a role in is being someone who, encourages and so the people that I know that are more vocal, that are more active, that are more, outspoken, they actually tell me that they appreciate the soft side of what I bring because they need that. And they need different perspectives and they need someone that [00:36:00] can just listen or to maybe help them feel more grounded.

Annmarie: it's the joy of offering what you do best. I mean, first of all, I wrote down how refreshing it was that you said, "I'm good at," and listed, like, seven things. There are so many women who can't do that, people in general, but women in particular. Like, us owning, particularly here in the Midwest where we're not supposed to, you know, shine our light too bright, to really admit what we're good at.

And I shared with you the same thing before we started is, you know, for years I was writing contemporary romance novels, and I kept having these moments of, "Annmarie, do something more important." And then it hit me one day, it's like knowing who I am, knowing my personality, knowing my neurodivergence, whatever it may be, is I'm not gonna be the person on the front line.

But I can certainly support the people on the front line by giving them a soft place to land at the end of a hard day with a book that's gonna make them [00:37:00] laugh, and just isn't gonna make them worry about anything because they know they're gonna get a happy ending. And there is such value in that, and that's exactly what you're talking about, too.

Like, how many people right now in the world just need somebody to listen, and empathetically listen, and make eye contact, and be present? And that's what you can offer. So I would put out to anybody listening, like, give yourself permission to do whatever it is that you're best at without running it through the filter of, "Is this important enough?

Is this big enough? Am I making a big enough difference?" Because, yeah, you are. Whether you're making it to a partner or your children or, I don't know, the dogs at the shelter. Like, you're making a difference by using the skills that you have

versus trying to be somebody else, which is a little bit of what you're talking about.

And I also think it's a little bit about doing the 50 fun things list, is figure out yourself [00:38:00] and allow yourself to love what you love, to do what you wanna do. It's just... It all ties together, and I just... I'm getting a little verklempt because this is my soapbox. But

 I wanna switch gears just a little bit, and because I really want to talk about the fact that we've hinted at this as we've talked about it.

But as women, we often get the message that joy is what you get after the real work is done, which we've talked around a little bit. But what would you say to someone who thinks fun's a reward and not a resource?

Teresa: Yeah. Um, well fun is fuel. Like what you were talking about, being that soft landing place for your readers, that touch of humor, all that. We all need to refuel, and joy does that for us. it sustains us. It, keeps us going. Joy gives us hope. Joy helps us realize that we're not in things alone, that [00:39:00] we're connected bigger way. And when you talked about being an author and, and that you were second-guessing yourself sometimes like, "Oh, you know, who am I to be writing?" I had that many times over the past several years. You know, George Floyd, and then COVID, and every- everything. Like, "Oh, who am I to be talking about joy?" And what I learned and heard from others over and over again is like, no, we need it. It's critical be able to s- still see joy in life. it's like you ta- talked about earlier. Life goes by so fast. We can't just wait to feel joy. We can feel it within the hard times. It's not something that's on a shelf for someday. can be integrated in and sprinkled on everything. And, here's an example. going to a funeral, right? You're grieving. it's challenging. You're... There's so many thoughts going through your head. But there's [00:40:00] usually some aspect of joy in there as well. with someone, sharing a story, um, having a memory that comes back, or even noticing the beauty of grief. Like, this person mattered, and we all care. that's what I mean about it, it's not something needs wait, that it, does much more good it's integrated in fully with life

Annmarie: Completely agree. And as you were bringing up COVID and George Floyd, Theresa and I both live in Minnesota. We've had our, seems like an unfair share of things happening here. obviously lived through, uh, it, there's no other word for it, but the ice invasion, and I think my friends started ignoring me because all I kept saying was, "Joy is an act of resistance.

Joy is an act of resistance."

Teresa: It

Annmarie: And it is. It absolutely is. And it keeps us whole, it gives [00:41:00] us hope, and then it also is to the people who maybe can't hold it in that moment, if you can help hold it for them,

There's only one way that's, that joy's gonna take you, and it's up. it's never gonna take you down.

So think about that when you're giving yourself time for wonder, time for play, time for fun. And let's wrap this up on a couple of lighter notes, 'cause we've gotten pretty dark here. tell me a fun thing that you keep meaning to add to your list but you haven't yet

Teresa: well, I've added most everything I've wanted to do to my list, but something... Okay, here's something that I've put on my last two lists and I haven't done yet, it's an actual activity, and it's archery. I just remember when I was a kid, I really liked when we did archery in gym class. And I'm not saying I want to become great at archery. I don't want to own a bow. I don't need to... I just wanna go out to archery course one time and just see what it's like, and kind of relive those memories. [00:42:00] so it's, it's a curiosity thing. I haven't done it yet, and, uh, this fall I'll just... Actually, that'll be my action step. I'll find out where. Is there a place nearby that I can go try archery, and that they provide all the equipment, just try it out

Annmarie: Yeah, those places exist, and if you tell four people, they're gonna tell you exactly where to go to bring this, you know, full circle

Teresa: That's why I made it clear, like, I don't need a bow, I

don't

Annmarie: Yeah, it's

Teresa: need the equipment. Because sometimes if you put something out there, they're like, "Is this your new profession?"

Annmarie: Right. No. No

Teresa: that's why people hold back from sharing their joys too, because sometimes it's just a little light thing, you know?

Like, I just wanna try this. No, I didn't wanna become a master, you know, painter. I just wanted to try it

Annmarie: Few things out of that. My, the last play date I did, we talked a lot about the fact that she also has been self-employed like you and I. Like, not [00:43:00] everything has to be monetized, right?

Teresa: Yeah.

Annmarie: can go take an oil painting class and never oil paint again, but it was a fun evening out maybe with a group of my friends.

 The other piece is that you were talking about, and this is a question that I've asked many people on my, you know, many people on my 10 or so podcasts I've had, but what did you love to do as a kid? And that's what you're talking about, right? Like, I loved archery in gym class. So think about that. Think about what you did at eight years old when play had no meaning, it didn't have to have any purpose, it didn't need to be monetized, justified, and go back to it.

And like you said, maybe you do it once, or maybe you try it and thought, "Oh, I really do love this. I do want a bow." You know, because we never know until we try. So

last question, if someone's picking up a blank chart, as you call it, or opening up their journal and gonna wanna make this list of [00:44:00] 50 fun things, what's the one instruction you'd give them before they start writing?

Teresa: To take off that filter of what other people would think or would other people think this is fun, just write down what feels good to you. and you might write something down and, and realize like, "Oh, wait, that's not quite it," but it's okay. It's getting you closer to noticing. That's the key, right? It's just noticing, and that's the whole thing with 50 fun things. It doesn't have to actually be 50. The

reason it's

Annmarie: I was just gonna ask that

Teresa: is that by being such a big number, you let go of things having to be so super important in your top goals, and you have to accomplish this. It's just like, hey, when it's 50, it's just like you start throwing in little, random fun things like, I don't know, maybe I want to try that.

And so you lighten up, so just, just to play with it. it's a, a tool that's meant to just be played with and adjusted and just for you, not for [00:45:00] anyone else. and see what, what clues come up and what, what you discover about yourself. And, really it's a practice where you start noticing without a chart what brings you joy, 'cause you've got that, that radar on now.

Annmarie: I'm guessing that's the point of it. I was gonna say, what do you say to the woman who says, "I can't possibly come up with 50 things"? And you've already answered that, right? Come up with as many as you can. But I do love the idea of, it's like a free write or Julia Cameron's Morning Pages or whatever it is to just unlock the brain and just start listing,

Teresa: Yep

Annmarie: you're right.

The, that big number is like, oh, you know, for us achievers, it's like I got... I, I have to get 50. And then, so then you come up with kind of these strange things like, oh, you know what? I don't want just blue and red dry erase markers in my office. I want the full rainbow of dry erase markers and Sharpies.

And you know what? colors of Sharpies is like a dream day for me. [00:46:00] But I wouldn't think of that if I said, "You need five things, and you gotta do 'em before you die." Like it's the d- it's different from a bucket list, and that's what I like

Teresa: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's... You don't have to, like, check, check, check, accomplish, accomplish, accomplish. It's, open yourself up, try things, play with things, notice things, and embrace those really, those little things that light you up. It doesn't have to be the big things

Annmarie: Yeah. Get curious, get curious, get curious. We'll just keep saying it. So as we wrap up, you did mention to me in one of the emails we shared that you have a fun-sized book called 50 Fun Things: Enjoy the Small Things. Is that something that listeners can get their hands on?

Teresa: Yes. And, uh, by the time that this goes out, the shop page will be updated to, what I most about is creating experiences. So I have packages for book clubs or joy [00:47:00] clubs or fri- groups of friends who want to do this. And so it's got the guide, the conversation guide, the Enjoy the Small Things.

It's a fun-sized book. It's, it's small. It's got, 50 fun and simple, ways to add joy to your life, everyday life, and then a reflection and an action step you can take. The book is meant to be written in. It's meant to be talked about, there's lots of ways people use it, but the is the most powerful. so, go to 50, the number 5-0, funthings.com, and that would be the easiest way to find details.

Annmarie: Awesome. I will also link it in the show notes. And so after all of that, fun questions and really deep, dark questions, I'm just gonna thank you for being here again. And you know what? I feel really motivated to start my own 50 fun things list and look for the small things, stay in the [00:48:00] present, both I think as a gratitude practice, but also a brainstorming tool.

My husband and I talk a lot about, "Well, what do you wanna do this weekend?" And then we look at each other, and we don't know. But maybe even using it for that, or like

each of us doing it and seeing if anything matches. We've been married a long time.

Teresa: Yeah, no, that's, that's a lot of couples have done that. A lot of people have even used it for their dating profiles, like what kinds of things they say they would like to do.

There's so many ways you could do it, but if you each did one and then see like, "Oh, that sounds interesting.

I'd love to try it," but it also gives you acknowledgement and permission of the things that you each want to do that doesn't require the other person. And so I mean, that's a big part of relationships is, you know, still having those interests that you don't have to both be all in on. so yeah, it's a great exercise for that. you'll have a lot of fun with it. It's a great conversation starter too. Like, "Really? You'd want to do that?

maybe." You know?

Annmarie: So [00:49:00] I have to just circle back to one thing before we clock off here, before we get off. You said something called a joy club, that you, that you could use this book in a joy club. Is that a real thing?

Teresa: It is in my mind.

Annmarie: Okay. I think we, now speaking of monetizing things, Theresa, I think we've just come up with a joint business, joy clubs.

Teresa: I, uh, I actually have, a very simple framework for creating a joy club, it's simple and I just ... This is actually my sign to just get it out into the world so that people can start joy clubs and remember what it is that they w- want to experience, and be present, and what they're noticing about through it.

So, um, yeah. This is a good sign, 'cause I've been thinking about this for several years, and, like I've, I've got it all mapped out what it would look like, and it, it's a simple, simple framework, so it's just time that it gets out into the world. So thank you for catching me on that.

Annmarie: Giving you a little push, yeah. It, it, you know, it's similar to [00:50:00] back pre-kids for everyone, a group of friends and I would show up at a bar here in town every Friday afternoon, and it's too easy to sink into, "Ugh, today was hard." You know, I live in a town with two colleges, and so a lot of my friends are professors, like, "I don't wanna grade this weekend."

And so I would stop everybody, 'cause I'm just this level of pain in the ass, and say, "All right. We're gonna go around, and everybody's gonna say the best thing that happened this week." And without fail, the mood would change, and that's a little bit of what the Joy Club is. Let's get together. Let's figure out how to find a little bit more joy, fun, hope, wonder in our lives without being that Pollyanna piece, 'cause you know what?

Shit happens.

Teresa: Yeah

Annmarie: But there's also a lot of amazing things that happen as well. So I hope that everyone listening will make their list. I'm not giving homework. I feel like I should, but I'm not going to. Thank you, Theresa, for being here. I appreciate it so much. I've loved this [00:51:00] conversation.

And for everybody out there listening, I will see you in a week, and you know what I always say, you're supposed to go play.

I Used to Be Fun is hosted by Annmarie Boyle. New episodes drop weekly.

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